On this first episode of the Deep Questions Pod, our guest is Dr. Craig Keener, author of Miracles Today, and a two-volume (1200 page!) scholarly work on Miracles. Dr. Keener is a New Testament scholar, prolific author, and without a doubt, the foremost authority in the world on miracles in history, and modern miracles. Dr. Keener shares some amazing miracles stories today, including some that he personally witnessed and experienced! He also shares about his writing career, how he wrote his four-volume (4,400 page!) commentary on the book of Acts, and how he met his wife Medine, who was a refugee in Congo for 18 months. An absolutely fascinating interview – be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you can hear part two, coming in the next episode.

Here are links to Dr. Keener’s books on miracles: Miracles Today by Dr. Craig S. Keener Click here  This is Dr. Keener’s 300 page much more approachable work on miracles – a fascinating read.

Here is Dr. Keener’s 1200+ page academic work on miracles: Miracles: The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts. CLICK HERE. 

 

Below find a very rough and unedited transcript of the interview with Dr. Keener:

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: So I am overjoyed to welcome Doctor Craig as keener to our first

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: episode. Doctor Keener is a prominent New Testament scholar, a

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: prolific author, having written over thirty books. I think the exact

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: number is thirty four. Most of which are thick and substantial enough

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: to destroy a car if dropped from a building. I fi first picked up one

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: of Doctor Keenner’s books almost thirty years ago. I believe it came

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: out in ninety three. I got it in nineteen, ninety five. Uh, when I

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: was at seminary in Be, and Divinity School in Birmingham, it was the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Iv P Bible background commentary on the New Testament and it’s a

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: fantastic resource that I have used Uh multiple times. Just uh. There

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: is a newer version of that out. Now the two thousand Fourteen

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: edition, Doctor Kinger is the F. M and Ada Thompson, professor of

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Biblical studies at Asbury Seminary in Wilmore Kentucky, which is

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: right, as we speak, in the path of a vicious ice storm, So I hope the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: ice doesn’t knock us off a off line today, Doctor Keener, Um, I, and

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that you are warm and safe So far So good? right? No ice on the roads

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: yet

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[Unknown]: right if yeah and if

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[Unknown]: yeah if the power goes out we’ve got i have a laptop we can switch to if the

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[Unknown]: internet goes out

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[Unknown]: it’ll be be continued so

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: That that sounds good. Uh, hopefully we’ll make it through at least

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: for a little while. So I’ve already introduced you earlier in the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Pocast, in terms of your Uh books in your academic career. What would

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: you say Doctor Keener defines you beyond that? What do you want a

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: people to know about you that goes beyond

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[Unknown]: jesus

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: academia?

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[Unknown]: yeah i just

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Yeah,

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[Unknown]: um

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[Unknown]: i i was an atheist before my conversion and

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[Unknown]: the word graciously revealed himself to me and converted me and

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[Unknown]: i’ll be eternally literally eternally grateful to him

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[Unknown]: for that cause

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[Unknown]: i wasn’t in a setting i mean i i didn’t grow up in a christian home i wasn’t in a

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[Unknown]: setting where i would have

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[Unknown]: come to that on my own

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[Unknown]: so yeah that’s i guess that’s what defines me most

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that’s that’s a great answer. And and I, I will say, Uh, academics,

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Seminary might have a a reputation for being dry and dusty. That was

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: not my experience with seminary. Most of my professors Uh, were

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: genuine, Godheted in love with Jesus people. Uh, So my experience

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: with seminary, I didn’t. I didn’t go through and come out thinking.

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Oh, my gosh, that was such a tedious chore. It was a good time and

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: reading your works, Doctor Keener, and uh, having just recently

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: listened to Uh miracles today on Audible, I. I totally get that it’s

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: It’s not dry and dusty academics with you, Uh, your love for Jesus

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: and his work. really, uh, kind of leaps off the page and I appreciate

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that I understand you have a upcoming podcast on the Bible

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: backgrounds with Doctor Kiurt Jeeros, Can you tell us just briefly

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: about that? Is it? is it available yet? is it? Uh, is it in the Itune

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: St. Apple podcast

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[Unknown]: not

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: story, yet

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[Unknown]: no i don’t think it’s i don’t think it’s out yet

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[Unknown]: yeah

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[Unknown]: dr kris

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[Unknown]: interviewed me at some length we did a number of podcasts they haven’t started

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[Unknown]: releasing yet

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[Unknown]: basically he’s asking me questions and i’m just answering them and also um

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[Unknown]: it’s open especially for the next season he got some questions beforehand from

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[Unknown]: other people but especially for the next season people send in questions and he’ll

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[Unknown]: give me the questions and if i know the answers i’ll answer them if i if i don’t

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[Unknown]: well hopefully he won’t record those

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that’s great. Well, I’m looking forward to that podcast. I’m going to

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: be scanning Uh my podcast app weekly to see when it comes out because

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I. I. when I first saw that on your Youtube channel, I thought that

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: is a fantastic idea for a podcast. I will absolutely

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[Unknown]: yes

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: devour that. so, uh, I am a lug logos user, Um, very prolific. I. I

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: probably own ten. twelve or so of your books, Uh one? I don’t know on

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: yet, but I plan on it. So of my goals list is your four volume

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: commentary on the Book of Acts, According to logos, it is. Uh, it’s a

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: four thousand. I want to say. they say it’s like four thousand six

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: hundred pages long. I, I’m a writer. I’m not sayg again.

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[Unknown]: for five hundred is closer it’s about four thousand five hundred it’s it’s like

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[Unknown]: four thousand four hundred

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: four thousand fivet

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[Unknown]: fifty or something like that and

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I, That absolutely blows me away. I’m a writer. Uh, not like you. No,

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: nowhere near as prolific. I think my longest book is. Oh, it’s it’s

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: just under three hundred pages To To imagine writing a a four

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: thousand page book. It just blows my mind, so uh, how long did it

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: take to write your commentary on As and I, if I could ask for the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: writers out there. What’s your writing routine?

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[Unknown]: yeah

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[Unknown]: i think i had brain damage when i was done with that my wife and the lord helped me

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[Unknown]: because

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[Unknown]: it was it was intense and i thank god for my patient students who put up with

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[Unknown]: what i was during those years but anyway i mean i i

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[Unknown]: of course i’ve been doing research all along since maybe nineteen eighty when i was

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[Unknown]: actually an undergrad in nineteen eighty but i was starting to you know keep track

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[Unknown]: of my of my research

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[Unknown]: but i started actually writing the book around the year two thousand

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[Unknown]: and

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[Unknown]: well the last volume came out in what twenty fifteen so uh it was

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[Unknown]: i mean the indexing of it took me

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[Unknown]: something like fourteen months

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[Unknown]: so

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[Unknown]: it was sixty hour weeks i i do i do observe a sabbath but i mean you know it was

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[Unknown]: ten hours a day most of the rest of the week

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[Unknown]: not including my teaching

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[Unknown]: and happily i lived on campus during the time of the writing so my commute was you

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[Unknown]: know like two minutes that helped but then also you know you you talk with talk

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[Unknown]: with students outside class and so on you when you live right on campus you’re

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[Unknown]: you’re accessible but

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[Unknown]: it was it was hard in the brain

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[Unknown]: but yeah basically it was pretty much

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[Unknown]: yeah i guess ten hours a day is a good way to describe it i mean some days it may

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[Unknown]: have been a little bit less some days it was a lot more

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[Unknown]: um

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[Unknown]: i said i would never

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: That’s fantastic. It sounds kind of

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[Unknown]: i didn’t mean to do that though i mean i thought it would take me two years and

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[Unknown]: every two years when i’d come up for air it’s like okay maybe two more years and

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[Unknown]: you know if i’d known i don’t think i would have started it and then said i’d never

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[Unknown]: do that again and then i was asked to write the icc volume one mark

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[Unknown]: which i’m working on now

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[Unknown]: and this one is also intense however

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[Unknown]: mark is only half as long as acts so i have a little more hope this time

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: so. we can expect maybe two thousand pages out of that one.

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[Unknown]: well i don’t know how many pages it’ll be but i’m trying to be as concise as i can

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[Unknown]: but you have to inter interact with other scholarship and and you know i cited like

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[Unknown]: over ten thousand

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[Unknown]: works of secondary scholarship in in my acts commentary the big the big one not the

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[Unknown]: i did a shorter seven hundred page ring for for cambridge where i had to cut like

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[Unknown]: ninety percent of my

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[Unknown]: of my work to just get it down to the summary version but

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[Unknown]: you know even with that i mean i keep running into people oh you didn’t pite me and

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[Unknown]: i’m like i’m so sorry i meant to fight everybody but i think i only got like half

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[Unknown]: of what was available out there

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[Unknown]: but i think the real strength of it is what i did with the primary sources with

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[Unknown]: ancient historiography and and so on

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Well, God is obviously ging you a writing gift. And uh, sometimes

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: when I’m writing, I’m very streaky and and intense and almost getting

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: to kind of a manic state where I don’t know the words, just Fl. And

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: and if you are writing ten hours a day, Uh, for years at a time, I,

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that’s just uh. it’s it’s wonderful, and I, I absolutely uh at

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: understand, at least, uh, a a small portion of what you’re talking

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: about about the brain drain at the end of Uh, a work like that. So

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: when is your Ic C commentary on Mark coming out? I did not know you

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: were working on that.

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[Unknown]: i don’t have any way to predict it because i i am only like about halfway through

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[Unknown]: the rough draft and after my rough draft it’ll probably take me a couple years to

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[Unknown]: go back and fix it up into something

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[Unknown]: readable

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[Unknown]: so there’s there’s still a long way to go but i think the um the previous edition

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[Unknown]: the one that i’m replacing came out in eighteen ninety six eighteen ninety seven so

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[Unknown]: you know it’ll it’ll be out um

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[Unknown]: considering how long it’s been since the last edition it’ll be

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[Unknown]: fairly soon few years

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Well, I look forward to it. Those I C C commentaries are intense, so

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I, i, imag, I can. I can only barely imagine the the work you’re

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: putting into that made the Lord bless that project. Uh. well,

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: speaking of books, Uh, our main discussion today is on miracles and

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: and your book Miracles today, but I just recently learned that in two

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: thousand nineteen you authored a book with Doctor Michael Brown

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: called Not Afraid of the Anti Christ. Why we don’t believe in a pre

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: triribulation rapture, So I’ve actually had the privilege of meeting

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Doctor Brown a couple of times once when he was uh, uh at the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Brownsvi revival in the nineties, and then once, uh, a good bit after

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that when he was leading the fire school of ministry. I, just he, he

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: didn’t know me from Adam. I was a youth pastor the first time I met

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: him and he made time for me, and actually a couple of other youth

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: pastors and I. I was just blown away by his graciousness by his

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: openness by his genuineness, Um, just such a good guy for somebody

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that you know is quite prominent. So so I guess my question is uh,

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: what was it like writing with Doctor Brown? And uh, considering you

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: wrote a book that really pushes back on the, I would say, the primary

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: evangelical viewpoint of the Rapture is sort of the pretb left Behind

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: perspective, which I, I also don’t agree with. Uh. But what was it

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: like writing a book with Doctor Brown, And how much pushback have you

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: had from other Christians on the stance you took?

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[Unknown]: michael and i have been friends for a long time ’cause we’re both charismatic

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[Unknown]: and charismatic scholars well back when we became friends there weren’t a whole lot

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[Unknown]: of charismatic scholars outside of the pentecostal and their bible schools and so

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[Unknown]: on so um you know we had that in common and i and i visited him he invited me to

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[Unknown]: visit him at the brownsville revival and

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[Unknown]: so we we got to know each other fairly well

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[Unknown]: and then um

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[Unknown]: and we’ve kept in we we keep in touch regularly so

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[Unknown]: the publisher asked is there anything on your heart that you would like to write a

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[Unknown]: a book about uh together and and uh

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[Unknown]: well

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[Unknown]: there were some other things but they would take a lot of time and we didn’t have a

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[Unknown]: whole lot of time so we took the low hanging fruit

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[Unknown]: and that was you know because i i went to a well my undergraduate institution was

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[Unknown]: pre tribulation and so i got a lot of flack for that but i figure you know if

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[Unknown]: you’re thinking you’re not gonna escape the great fibrillation you can handle a

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[Unknown]: little bit of flack right so

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[Unknown]: uh

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Hey,

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[Unknown]: we

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[Unknown]: we had both come to the same conclusion i mean we’ve both been taught pre

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[Unknown]: tribulation ism as young christians and both of us reading the bible inductive

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[Unknown]: realized that all the verses used in support of it were out of context

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[Unknown]: and so we left behind the left behind view

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[Unknown]: of course we have a lot of good friends who still hold that

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[Unknown]: we try to be gracious we got we got a little bit of pushback but i mean it wasn’t

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[Unknown]: considering the kind of pushback we could have gotten it wasn’t really too harsh i

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[Unknown]: mean there was one of the funniest was somebody who who wrote

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[Unknown]: on

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[Unknown]: i think he he wrote on amazon

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[Unknown]: as soon as the book came out

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[Unknown]: uh you know panned the book before he before he possibly could have read it

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[Unknown]: but one of the other other funny ones but we got a lot of you know happy reviews

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[Unknown]: too but one of the um

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[Unknown]: the probably the most funny was like

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[Unknown]: this is this is falsehood ah don’t read this book i have never read this book and

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[Unknown]: was like wait a minute you haven’t read it how do you know so that was that was

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[Unknown]: funny and actually michael pushed back on that one and the guy said all right

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[Unknown]: you’re right i retract so that was nice

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I, I’m never I. I never failed to be surprised at how many close

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: minded people there are. I in Christendom. I guess just the whole

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: world. we’ll talk about skeeptics in a minute. but uh, people, once

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: they solidify their views, it’s like it’s concrete and not even the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Bible can change their mind, And uh, that’s that’s a little bit of a

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: scary place to be in where your dogma is elevated above. Uh, what the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Word of God says? Well, um,

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: let’s kind of shift to our our discussion of miracles. Um, I’m going

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: to ask you if you personally have experienced a miracle. I, before I

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: do that, let me briefly share

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: a possible miracle with you and see if you can tell me if you think

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that is a miracle. Um, Obviously, there’s no way for you to think you

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: know know whether it’s true or not. I. I’ll just tell you that I’m

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I’m telling the truth, Uh, as best as I remember it, So I am Um. I am

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: a Southern Baptist pastor in Selinas, California, Uh, but I grew up

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: in Alabama, lived in Alabama in the south, Uh, all my life until just

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: about four years ago when I moved out here to pastor a church in

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Salinus, When I was in Alabama, I was the pastor of a Gapee Baptist

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: church which is Um. in a community called Pinin, just outside of

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Birmingham, Uh, it was a Southern Baptist church and our Uh, our

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Montra, there, our, uh, our theme. There was uh, something that I

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: called everybody play ball, which uh, essentially meant everybody has

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: a spiritual gift and we want to be a church where everybody uses

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: their spiritual gift. not a Pastor driven church, but a you know, a

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Jesus focused people driven church where everybody uses their gift.

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: And uh, so it was that a good friend of mine who, uh, I’m a

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: continuationist, I, I don’t know that I would say I’m a full blown

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: care matic. I might be uh, pretty close to that, Uh, but probably

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: very close for that to that for a baptist. but a friend of mine who

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: was like, really, really, really charismatic. Uh, he and his family

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: started coming to the church, and um, you know, I, I heard me talking

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: about everybody using their gifts, and so one day he comes to me and

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: says Well, I, I feel like my gift is uh, sort of in the area of words

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: of knowledge. Uh of praying for people. Uh, like God reveals to me

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that that somebody has this issue and I pray for them and he said You

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: know, can we try doing that and I said Well, okay, let’s give it a

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: shot. And so on Sunday mornings for a few weeks, this guy, his name

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: was Craig would come up and before uh, after worship and before the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: message started Y, we would have a time of prayer and he would say

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Well, I feel like there’s somebody here today with Uh, I don’t know,

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Um, A a liver disorder that we needed to pray for or somebody that is

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: experiencing um insomnia. And and we did that for a few minutes, And

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: and and I, I was al slightly nervous about it. It was very

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: charismatic, but you know the church was fine with it. There were no

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: issues and we were praying for people. And and and God was doing

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: things well, One Sunday he gets up there and uh, I was a little

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: nervous that day. I don’t remember why I am here. I’m in the pastor.

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I’m holding the microphone. He saying these things and he says, I

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: feel like there’s somebody here with an injury to their fifth

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: medictrsal, which is incredibly specific and I, my eyes kind of got

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: big and I remember thinking Oh people aren’t even go to know what

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: their mettatorsal is, So this is probably goingnna be really

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: embarrassing so we just stand there for a literally. Th. It felt like

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: five minutes, but it was probably thirty seconds scanning the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: congregation and nobody is stepping forward and I’m like, Oh, this

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: is. This is a disaster, but then I start thinking so at the time I

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: didn’t. I always forgot the difference between the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: mettaicarpals and the mettatrsals. I know

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[Unknown]: yeah

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[Unknown]: yeah nothing

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: one’s fingers and one’s feet, and a yes, there you. and so I uh, I

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: googled on my phone like kinda off to the side. I’m sure everybody

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: saw me and I realized your metaarsal is a bone in your foot, and it

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: all of a sudden struck me a, a few years before I had broken my foot

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: trying to show off at a um. A A. A youth Locke in, I tried to slam

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: dunk a basketball. I landed on another basketball, broke my foot, and

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: uh then actually broke it again A few years after that in a biking

281
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: accident, and for the last year at the time, This was two thousand

282
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: thirteen. I think for the last year because I had broken my foot

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: twice, I had developed a pretty severe case of plantar faciis to the

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: point where uh, every time I stood up after sitting down or every

285
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: time I got up in the morning, E, any time I stopped walking, I would

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: have severe pain for about the first hundred steps and then it would

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: work itself out and get better, And uh, so I, How of a sudden

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: realized, Oh, my gosh, I’m the guy with a fifth mettataarsal injury

289
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: and I was trying to think where the breakke was and I didn’t remember

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: at the time, but I felt like he was talking about me and I was very

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: embarrassed and I said Well, Craig, I believe it or not, have a fifth

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: mettaarsal injury and and I knew like I, I told the church, I said. I

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: know this looks like a setu. I know if this looks like we just made

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: this upper colluded outside, but he has no idea. I have a foot

295
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: injury. Uh, and he really didn’t.

296
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[Unknown]: yes

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: He had no idea. So he prayed for me A, and honestly A as a pastor Um.

298
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Usually after church we we go up to eat and Id go home and take a

299
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: nap, and I, I’m in this fog until the next day. Well, the next day I

300
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: woke up, got out of bed, was walking around, and all of a sudden it

301
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: hit me my foot hasn’t hurt today, and I realized that my foot was

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: completely healed. And honestly, that’s been years ago. I. it’s never

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: hurt again in that place and I know it’s my fifth mettaorsal, because

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I still have a bone spur there.

305
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I actually checked it last night before this interviewcause. I want

306
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: to make sure it’s right on top of my fifth Metas, and I. I don’t know

307
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that I felt a warm oil like sensation or anything like that when he

308
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: prayed for me, but I will tell you I went from daily not daily hourly

309
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: pain to ▁zero pain, and that’s been almost ten years. So so what do

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: you think? I don’t know that I would call that a miracle. I

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: definitely think God did something. What do you think? Would you call

312
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: it a miracle?

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[Unknown]: i i would call it a divine action yeah

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[Unknown]: the definition of miracle is

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[Unknown]: uh we have to talk about the definition of miracle before we talk about um what

316
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[Unknown]: things are miracles because

317
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[Unknown]: there’s some ambiguity about the definition so i think normal normally people would

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[Unknown]: call that a miracle

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[Unknown]: but uh one one other thing you were saying that you are continuations and almost

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[Unknown]: charismatic i mean

321
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[Unknown]: charisma is is just the greek term used for a gift

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[Unknown]: so

323
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[Unknown]: spiritual gifts anybody who

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Yes,

325
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[Unknown]: i guess my way of defining it would be a continuation as to somebody who believes

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[Unknown]: that spiritual gifts are for today and charismatic is somebody who puts that into

327
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[Unknown]: practice so i think you are charismatic by the biblical definition anyway but

328
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[Unknown]: yeah

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: you would be right.

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[Unknown]: so um but in the case of miracle it’s been defined different ways through history

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[Unknown]: the new testament term that’s usually translated that way just means active power

332
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[Unknown]: well god creating the whole the whole universe that was act the power but the

333
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[Unknown]: terminology is used in the gospels and acts especially for

334
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[Unknown]: what we call signs and wonders things that get people’s attention so in a lot of

335
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[Unknown]: church history they spoke of this as

336
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[Unknown]: an active power that generates awe or gets people’s attention

337
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[Unknown]: and

338
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[Unknown]: in

339
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[Unknown]: in augustine spoke about it as not being according to the usual course of nature

340
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[Unknown]: it’s above nature it’s not against nature but it’s

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[Unknown]: it’s above nature

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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Hm,

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[Unknown]: the way it’s often defined by i theologians today

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[Unknown]: they define a difference between general divine action the way god set the universe

345
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[Unknown]: up to work i mean god is at work in everything we we thank god for life

346
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[Unknown]: and and even though

347
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[Unknown]: you know i inherited my genes from my parents and you know it goes way way back so

348
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[Unknown]: i mean it’s god works through other causes

349
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[Unknown]: as well

350
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[Unknown]: sometimes we have what is called special divine action where god does something

351
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[Unknown]: that that wouldn’t

352
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[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I love that definition.

353
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[Unknown]: he’s not just working through the secondary causes he may work through secondary

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[Unknown]: causes but he does it in a very unusual way so it gets our attention

355
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[Unknown]: and

356
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[Unknown]: david hume who was a scottish philosopher in the seventeen hundreds

357
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[Unknown]: he defined miracles as violations of natural law and then define natural law as

358
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[Unknown]: that which can be violated and therefore define miracles out of existence which is

359
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[Unknown]: rather you know i mean if that’s not circular reasoning i don’t know what we would

360
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[Unknown]: call circular reasoning

361
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[Unknown]: but in terms of them being

362
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[Unknown]: not part of the ordinary course of nature

363
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[Unknown]: that’s

364
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[Unknown]: i mean i think we can

365
00:23:58,320 –> 00:23:59,840
[Unknown]: we can say that’s reasonable now

366
00:24:01,760 –> 00:24:06,800
[Unknown]: there’s a continuum i think of things that we would because god often works through

367
00:24:06,960 –> 00:24:11,440
[Unknown]: nature like in exodus fourteen it says that he blew back

368
00:24:12,720 –> 00:24:15,600
[Unknown]: the the sea with a strong east wind

369
00:24:16,720 –> 00:24:22,800
[Unknown]: so clearly it wasn’t a violation of nature god was god was using natural causes but

370
00:24:22,880 –> 00:24:27,680
[Unknown]: he was using them in such a way i mean it happens just we we we know about winds

371
00:24:27,755 –> 00:25:59,195
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Ssm,

372
00:24:27,840 –> 00:24:29,360
[Unknown]: set down there is such a thing

373
00:24:30,480 –> 00:24:35,120
[Unknown]: where wind can blow back bodies of water but i mean for this to happen so that the

374
00:24:35,120 –> 00:24:39,120
[Unknown]: israelites can walk across the sea and then when their pursuers are coming after

375
00:24:39,280 –> 00:24:42,960
[Unknown]: them it closes on them you know we wouldn’t call that a coincidence i mean most of

376
00:24:43,040 –> 00:24:47,760
[Unknown]: us would say okay that’s pretty dramatic if it has to be an actual violation to

377
00:24:47,500 –> 00:24:48,500
[Unknown]: nature

378
00:24:49,440 –> 00:24:53,360
[Unknown]: or something that would be naturally impossible

379
00:24:54,880 –> 00:24:57,840
[Unknown]: where we’ve got the resurrection of jesus we’ve got the creation of the world to

380
00:24:57,840 –> 00:25:01,680
[Unknown]: begin with we’ve got the virgin birth we don’t have a whole lot of those even in

381
00:25:01,680 –> 00:25:04,400
[Unknown]: the bible i mean god usually works through nature so

382
00:25:07,200 –> 00:25:11,520
[Unknown]: sometimes it’s hard to say you know what is just god’s blessing

383
00:25:12,780 –> 00:25:13,780
[Unknown]: and and what is

384
00:25:14,880 –> 00:25:19,680
[Unknown]: something so dramatic that it gets people’s attention different things will tend to

385
00:25:19,760 –> 00:25:26,000
[Unknown]: get different people’s attention so that some people don’t pay attention no matter

386
00:25:26,240 –> 00:25:30,960
[Unknown]: what i’ve had a couple friends who are atheists tell me that if somebody were

387
00:25:31,120 –> 00:25:32,720
[Unknown]: raised from the dead in front of them

388
00:25:34,080 –> 00:25:36,800
[Unknown]: i asked him you know because they were like i don’t believe that i don’t believe

389
00:25:36,880 –> 00:25:39,680
[Unknown]: that so if somebody were raised from the dead in front of you would you believe it

390
00:25:39,500 –> 00:25:40,500
[Unknown]: and they said no

391
00:25:42,420 –> 00:25:43,420
[Unknown]: so

392
00:25:44,560 –> 00:25:48,640
[Unknown]: you know you have some people nothing will get their attention oh that’s what they

393
00:25:48,720 –> 00:25:53,600
[Unknown]: say i suspect it might actually get that tense if they did see it but um

394
00:25:54,800 –> 00:26:00,560
[Unknown]: i know when i was in the estate i i wasn’t one of the nice atheists i was i made

395
00:26:00,720 –> 00:26:06,560
[Unknown]: fun of christians but i wasn’t so close minded that nothing could get my attention

396
00:26:09,600 –> 00:26:12,320
[Unknown]: so anyway there you know but you can say

397
00:26:14,000 –> 00:26:15,200
[Unknown]: you may not be able to tell

398
00:26:17,600 –> 00:26:21,520
[Unknown]: is is this dramatic is this dramatic i mean dramatic or

399
00:26:22,100 –> 00:26:23,100
[Unknown]: uh

400
00:26:24,560 –> 00:26:29,360
[Unknown]: well all those kind of terms are subjective because you know there’s different

401
00:26:29,580 –> 00:26:30,580
[Unknown]: levels of dramatic

402
00:26:31,680 –> 00:26:37,200
[Unknown]: but between a basic example of something that clearly is a basic example of

403
00:26:37,360 –> 00:26:38,640
[Unknown]: something that clearly isn’t

404
00:26:40,160 –> 00:26:43,120
[Unknown]: you know you can you can at least use you know

405
00:26:44,480 –> 00:26:48,800
[Unknown]: here are some clear examples and here are some in between that different people

406
00:26:48,960 –> 00:26:51,120
[Unknown]: will decide differently so i often say to people

407
00:26:52,380 –> 00:26:53,380
[Unknown]: what do you think

408
00:26:54,480 –> 00:26:58,240
[Unknown]: because i think a lot of them most people would say yeah that’s a miracle

409
00:26:59,360 –> 00:27:00,800
[Unknown]: um it’s like

410
00:27:01,700 –> 00:27:02,700
[Unknown]: samson

411
00:27:04,320 –> 00:27:09,440
[Unknown]: would be a good example before he got his his bad hair day with delila samson would

412
00:27:09,440 –> 00:27:11,520
[Unknown]: be a great example of somebody with long hair

413
00:27:12,720 –> 00:27:16,400
[Unknown]: i would be a great example of somebody with short hair you know so

414
00:27:18,240 –> 00:27:22,320
[Unknown]: you know in between we have people like like yourself uh so

415
00:27:25,600 –> 00:27:28,560
[Unknown]: yeah so i i think miracles happen

416
00:27:29,760 –> 00:27:34,400
[Unknown]: how people define them will vary somewhat but i think we have enough examples that

417
00:27:34,560 –> 00:27:35,760
[Unknown]: are clear that

418
00:27:36,880 –> 00:27:39,200
[Unknown]: almost anybody except my you know

419
00:27:40,240 –> 00:27:42,320
[Unknown]: friends i just mentioned would accept them and then

420
00:27:43,860 –> 00:27:44,860
[Unknown]: some others that

421
00:27:46,560 –> 00:27:49,600
[Unknown]: almost all of us would be skeptical of and then some others

422
00:27:51,060 –> 00:27:52,060
[Unknown]: in between

423
00:27:52,880 –> 00:27:57,440
[Unknown]: i think most people would consider what you shared to be a miracle especially

424
00:27:57,600 –> 00:28:00,000
[Unknown]: because it was specified independently

425
00:27:59,695 –> 00:28:00,695
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: S.

426
00:28:00,220 –> 00:28:01,220
[Unknown]: you know with

427
00:28:02,400 –> 00:28:04,400
[Unknown]: you know direct information right

428
00:28:07,355 –> 00:28:10,795
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: well, I appreciate the definition you use in your book. Uh, it’s very

429
00:28:10,955 –> 00:28:15,675
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: simple. Uh, profound, a special divine action, and uh, we probably

430
00:28:15,835 –> 00:28:20,075
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: won’t talk about Hum’s argument too much today. But uh, y, both of

431
00:28:20,235 –> 00:28:26,155
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: your volumes on miracles, really, take his argument down. Uh, it’s

432
00:28:26,315 –> 00:28:31,035
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: It’s a complete and total takeown in. Um. I, you know, honestly, in

433
00:28:31,115 –> 00:28:35,915
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: terms of skeptical arguments against Christianity, I, I definitely

434
00:28:36,395 –> 00:28:41,515
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: find Hum’s argument one of the least potent. Uh, it’s just not very

435
00:28:41,675 –> 00:28:45,915
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: well argued. as you said. it’s uh. It’s very much an example of

436
00:28:46,075 –> 00:28:49,595
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: circular re. reasoning almost at toology. and it,

437
00:28:50,875 –> 00:28:56,155
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: he. the. the. The major plank of his argument is lack of reliable

438
00:28:56,475 –> 00:29:00,875
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: witnesses to miracles, And of course uh, your book is is uh,

439
00:29:01,515 –> 00:29:05,515
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: literally filled with Uh. the testimonies of medical doctors, people

440
00:29:05,755 –> 00:29:08,955
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: with Phds, et cetera and fact, One thing that struck me in your book

441
00:29:09,115 –> 00:29:13,515
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: was Uh, Seventy five percent of medical doctors surveyed Ah, in the

442
00:29:13,595 –> 00:29:16,875
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: United States. Uh, believe in miracles. That that tells you

443
00:29:17,115 –> 00:29:21,275
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: something, if seventy five percent of our most educated people who

444
00:29:21,595 –> 00:29:25,915
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: work with Uh, some of our sickest people believe in miracles. Well, D

445
00:29:26,155 –> 00:29:30,475
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Doctor Keinger, have you witnessed or experienced a miracle yourself?

446
00:29:30,160 –> 00:29:32,960
[Unknown]: well again it depends on how you define miracles but yeah

447
00:29:34,880 –> 00:29:37,520
[Unknown]: some some that i think most people would consider i mean for example

448
00:29:39,840 –> 00:29:42,960
[Unknown]: after my conversion i was helping out in a nursing home bible study

449
00:29:44,080 –> 00:29:49,680
[Unknown]: and i was an undergraduate at the time but a bible study leader was a fuller

450
00:29:49,760 –> 00:29:50,960
[Unknown]: seminarian at the time

451
00:29:51,540 –> 00:29:52,540
[Unknown]: and

452
00:29:54,320 –> 00:29:57,840
[Unknown]: i don’t recommend to my seminary students that they do things like this you really

453
00:29:58,000 –> 00:29:59,680
[Unknown]: have to be sure that god is in it but

454
00:30:01,020 –> 00:30:02,020
[Unknown]: there was a

455
00:30:03,680 –> 00:30:07,760
[Unknown]: an older woman there who came to the nursing home bible study her name was barbara

456
00:30:08,480 –> 00:30:13,280
[Unknown]: and she would always be wheel in on her wheelchair and every week she would say i

457
00:30:13,360 –> 00:30:15,040
[Unknown]: wish i could walk i wish i could walk

458
00:30:16,160 –> 00:30:21,680
[Unknown]: and one day the bible study leader said i’m tired of this and he got up out of his

459
00:30:22,160 –> 00:30:26,640
[Unknown]: out of his chair and walked over to her and took her by the hand and i’m like oh

460
00:30:26,880 –> 00:30:29,600
[Unknown]: though da don what are you doing and i was like

461
00:30:30,960 –> 00:30:37,520
[Unknown]: you know i i wasn’t an atheist anymore but you know i i i think i still had enough

462
00:30:37,680 –> 00:30:43,760
[Unknown]: of my skeptical background you know okay well no god can work in our hearts but you

463
00:30:43,840 –> 00:30:47,360
[Unknown]: know oh no don’t don’t don’t try to pick her up she’s gonna fall

464
00:30:48,100 –> 00:30:49,100
[Unknown]: um

465
00:30:50,080 –> 00:30:54,720
[Unknown]: he grabbed her by the hand said in the name of jesus christ rise up and walk i

466
00:30:54,880 –> 00:30:59,520
[Unknown]: walked her around the room she looked as horrified as i felt i mean she wasn’t

467
00:30:59,600 –> 00:31:05,200
[Unknown]: expecting this so this wasn’t like psychosomatic or something um he walked around

468
00:31:04,980 –> 00:31:05,980
[Unknown]: the room

469
00:31:08,480 –> 00:31:12,480
[Unknown]: and you know you could tell by her expression she was like what in the world just

470
00:31:12,420 –> 00:31:13,420
[Unknown]: happened to me

471
00:31:14,560 –> 00:31:17,200
[Unknown]: and from then on she would walk to the bible study

472
00:31:19,040 –> 00:31:23,920
[Unknown]: and she would say i love this bible study i love this bible study so this isn’t

473
00:31:23,920 –> 00:31:27,600
[Unknown]: something i saw you know like a burst of adrenaline you know in a public meeting

474
00:31:27,840 –> 00:31:31,760
[Unknown]: where somebody’s trying to get an attention for themselves or something this was

475
00:31:31,920 –> 00:31:34,240
[Unknown]: like she actually could walk after that

476
00:31:35,260 –> 00:31:36,260
[Unknown]: um and then

477
00:31:37,660 –> 00:31:38,660
[Unknown]: another another case

478
00:31:40,080 –> 00:31:41,600
[Unknown]: would be when we were

479
00:31:42,720 –> 00:31:48,000
[Unknown]: i it was when i was a fairly new professor i still consider myself a retired

480
00:31:47,820 –> 00:31:48,820
[Unknown]: doctoral student

481
00:31:49,300 –> 00:31:50,300
[Unknown]: and

482
00:31:51,120 –> 00:31:57,680
[Unknown]: i was teaching at a an african american seminary in north carolina at the time and

483
00:31:57,760 –> 00:31:59,520
[Unknown]: we were attached to a college

484
00:32:00,460 –> 00:32:01,460
[Unknown]: and the

485
00:32:03,280 –> 00:32:09,360
[Unknown]: and so i was helping with the undergrad campus ministry as well and some students

486
00:32:09,520 –> 00:32:15,680
[Unknown]: from a nearby hbcu another college in the area had come by to help us

487
00:32:16,375 –> 00:32:17,375
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Ss.

488
00:32:16,800 –> 00:32:20,800
[Unknown]: with this outreach that we’d planned for this one day but it was just pouring down

489
00:32:16,800 –> 00:32:20,800
[Unknown]: with this outreach that we’d planned for this one day but it was just pouring down

490
00:32:21,040 –> 00:32:24,160
[Unknown]: rain but like actually it is outside here right now

491
00:32:21,040 –> 00:32:24,160
[Unknown]: rain but like actually it is outside here right now

492
00:32:25,200 –> 00:32:29,760
[Unknown]: but it supposed to be snow soon but it was just pouring down rain

493
00:32:31,040 –> 00:32:36,080
[Unknown]: it was supposed to be pouring down rain all day long so that other things were in

494
00:32:36,160 –> 00:32:38,320
[Unknown]: the process of being canceled because of the rain

495
00:32:39,540 –> 00:32:40,540
[Unknown]: well

496
00:32:42,000 –> 00:32:47,120
[Unknown]: one of the a sophomore biology major from the other college said well let’s just

497
00:32:47,280 –> 00:32:53,760
[Unknown]: pray for the rain to stop i’m like oh okay well yeah whatever who can’t hurt

498
00:32:54,960 –> 00:32:56,720
[Unknown]: and she and she let us in prayer

499
00:32:58,800 –> 00:33:00,640
[Unknown]: and the rain stopped

500
00:33:01,540 –> 00:33:02,540
[Unknown]: and

501
00:33:03,120 –> 00:33:05,920
[Unknown]: after a few minutes the sun came out and was out the rest of the day

502
00:33:06,960 –> 00:33:09,680
[Unknown]: so you can say well it’s a coincidence but

503
00:33:10,800 –> 00:33:16,240
[Unknown]: i made it happened right right after when she prayed it was clearly contrary to

504
00:33:16,320 –> 00:33:19,840
[Unknown]: what everybody else was expecting to happen naturally speaking

505
00:33:21,340 –> 00:33:22,340
[Unknown]: and with with

506
00:33:23,360 –> 00:33:28,800
[Unknown]: the woman in the nursing home you can say well she was just psychosomatic disabled

507
00:33:28,740 –> 00:33:29,740
[Unknown]: well

508
00:33:30,800 –> 00:33:36,400
[Unknown]: if she was psychosomatic disabled and was cured psychosomatic

509
00:33:38,320 –> 00:33:41,200
[Unknown]: it was fortuitous because i mean

510
00:33:42,240 –> 00:33:46,800
[Unknown]: she could have just fallen down if i mean how did don know that this was gonna

511
00:33:46,500 –> 00:33:47,500
[Unknown]: happen

512
00:33:48,160 –> 00:33:49,520
[Unknown]: so i mean there are

513
00:33:52,000 –> 00:33:53,600
[Unknown]: things like that that i’ve witnessed

514
00:33:55,280 –> 00:33:56,800
[Unknown]: and experienced um

515
00:33:57,920 –> 00:34:02,480
[Unknown]: back when i was young christian and i often would pray in the woods cause back in

516
00:34:02,560 –> 00:34:05,360
[Unknown]: those days i liked it to pray loudly

517
00:34:06,560 –> 00:34:08,080
[Unknown]: so i do pray in the woods so

518
00:34:07,735 –> 00:34:08,735
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Hm,

519
00:34:08,060 –> 00:34:09,060
[Unknown]: it wouldn’t disturb people

520
00:34:09,700 –> 00:34:10,700
[Unknown]: and

521
00:34:11,680 –> 00:34:15,280
[Unknown]: my arms would get plastered with mosquito bites probably shouldn’t have been

522
00:34:15,360 –> 00:34:19,520
[Unknown]: preying so close to the creek but anyway my arms are plastered with mosquito bites

523
00:34:19,260 –> 00:34:20,260
[Unknown]: and

524
00:34:21,680 –> 00:34:26,560
[Unknown]: and so we just i didn’t you know i wanted to not be distracted so i would just pray

525
00:34:26,640 –> 00:34:30,640
[Unknown]: that they would go away and half an hour later i’d remember and look and they’d all

526
00:34:30,720 –> 00:34:32,960
[Unknown]: be gone you know so things like that would

527
00:34:33,095 –> 00:34:34,095
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Hm,

528
00:34:33,440 –> 00:34:36,000
[Unknown]: you know i’ve seen plenty of things like that

529
00:34:37,380 –> 00:34:38,380
[Unknown]: and

530
00:34:39,355 –> 00:34:42,875
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Uh, definitely falls under the category of special divine action.

531
00:34:43,355 –> 00:34:46,315
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: You, you mentioned psychosomatic healings, Uh, I, I don’t think

532
00:34:46,395 –> 00:34:50,955
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: anybody could believe that that’s a uh, a, a big part of the

533
00:34:51,035 –> 00:34:54,795
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Christian miracle testimonies after even a cursory reading of either

534
00:34:54,955 –> 00:34:58,475
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: one of your books on miracles, Uh, because you have so many stories

535
00:34:58,715 –> 00:35:03,435
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: in there of babies uh being healed. Not only being heal, coming back

536
00:35:03,515 –> 00:35:07,435
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: from the dead and people in comas and there’s no psychosmatic element

537
00:35:07,755 –> 00:35:11,435
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: that’s even possible with a baby or somebody in a coma, so uh, we’re

538
00:35:11,515 –> 00:35:14,955
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: going to move into some of our deep questions and they’re all pretty

539
00:35:15,115 –> 00:35:18,715
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: much based around Doctor Keener’s newest book that has recently been

540
00:35:18,795 –> 00:35:22,635
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: released. It’s called Miracles today, the supernatural work of God in

541
00:35:22,715 –> 00:35:27,115
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: the modern world. I have been uh, over the the first part of this

542
00:35:27,275 –> 00:35:30,795
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: year. I’ve been listening to that book. I got it on audible, and and

543
00:35:30,795 –> 00:35:32,875
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: I got to tell you this then. and I’m not just saying this because

544
00:35:32,955 –> 00:35:36,235
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Doctor Keener’s here. I’ already recommended it to several people. I.

545
00:35:36,555 –> 00:35:40,635
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: This is one of the best Christian books I’ve ever listened to. I.

546
00:35:40,875 –> 00:35:45,835
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: it’s fantastic. I am. not. um, I mean, I I might tear up in a movie

547
00:35:45,995 –> 00:35:49,035
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: or something like that, but generally speaking, I’m not just an easy

548
00:35:49,435 –> 00:35:53,435
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: cryer. There has been three instances listening to this book that I’m

549
00:35:53,595 –> 00:35:56,635
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: not quite finished with to as an honest confession. There’ been three

550
00:35:56,715 –> 00:36:00,635
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: instances listening to this book that I have just broken down crying.

551
00:36:00,795 –> 00:36:03,835
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: And if you think, oh well, it’s an emotional book. it’s It’s a

552
00:36:03,835 –> 00:36:07,675
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: scholarly book. It. it’s a very scholarly book. But there’s so many

553
00:36:08,075 –> 00:36:12,555
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: testimonies in the Book of miracles that are not sketchy but

554
00:36:12,715 –> 00:36:18,715
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: incredibly well attested. and Y, you can’t help but read this book or

555
00:36:18,875 –> 00:36:23,115
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: listen to this book and not just be moved to your core, So if you’ve

556
00:36:23,195 –> 00:36:26,395
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: not gotten a hold of Doctor Keener’s book, you should pause the

557
00:36:26,395 –> 00:36:29,515
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: podcast right now. Go to Amazon and go to wherever you get. your

558
00:36:29,595 –> 00:36:33,275
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: books. Go to Audible and get it its again, Miracles today, Doctor

559
00:36:33,435 –> 00:36:37,595
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Keener, K, e, e, n e r. the supernatural work of God in the modern

560
00:36:37,755 –> 00:36:40,955
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: world. In, I got to say this about the book, But all you have a two

561
00:36:41,115 –> 00:36:44,715
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: volume book on miracles, eleven hundred or twelve under pages. And

562
00:36:44,795 –> 00:36:48,395
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: then of course this book, which is more like uh, around three hundred

563
00:36:48,635 –> 00:36:55,355
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: pages. The they are astounding in just the sheer volume of the number

564
00:36:55,675 –> 00:36:58,875
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: of miracles. Now the the books are not completely wall the wall

565
00:36:59,035 –> 00:37:02,875
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: miracles. there’s a lot of theological scholarly discussion. Uh, in

566
00:37:03,035 –> 00:37:06,955
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: interaction with S. sceptics, but there’s so many. S. It’s so many

567
00:37:07,115 –> 00:37:10,155
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: miracle stories in the books it. it’s honestly. I would use the word

568
00:37:10,395 –> 00:37:13,995
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: relentless to describe them. In the sense if you’re a sceptic,

569
00:37:14,235 –> 00:37:17,595
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: listening to these books are reading these books. you’re just going

570
00:37:17,835 –> 00:37:23,515
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: to be overwhelmed by the the volume of them, so let’s talk about a

571
00:37:23,515 –> 00:37:27,675
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: couple of those stories if we could. Um, can you share maybe a couple

572
00:37:27,835 –> 00:37:31,755
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: of three stories with us and I’ll specifically ask you to to start

573
00:37:32,075 –> 00:37:35,835
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: with the one Uh, about your wife’s sister? I. I, I think she would

574
00:37:35,915 –> 00:37:38,395
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: be. it would be a French name. So Tres, is that

575
00:37:38,020 –> 00:37:39,020
[Unknown]: uh

576
00:37:38,475 –> 00:37:42,795
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: the correct pronunciation? All right, So let’s hear about Tress, Uh,

577
00:37:43,035 –> 00:37:47,995
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: True, Trez was uh in Congo. M, was it ▁zire? at the time when this

578
00:37:47,600 –> 00:37:50,640
[Unknown]: there’s two congos now this is the one that was already

579
00:37:47,775 –> 00:37:48,775
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: happened,

580
00:37:50,415 –> 00:37:51,415
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Okay,

581
00:37:50,880 –> 00:37:53,120
[Unknown]: called congo then this is republic congo

582
00:37:53,375 –> 00:37:54,375
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Okay,

583
00:37:53,780 –> 00:37:54,780
[Unknown]: we do

584
00:37:55,195 –> 00:37:58,715
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: well, well, tell us about her snake by incident in what happened,

585
00:37:57,600 –> 00:38:00,560
[Unknown]: yeah we do we do have accounts from the other congo too but

586
00:38:01,600 –> 00:38:06,080
[Unknown]: yeah this one there’s no medical documents for this one because there was no

587
00:38:06,160 –> 00:38:10,160
[Unknown]: medical help available in the village which is why they what we needed a miracle

588
00:38:10,240 –> 00:38:12,720
[Unknown]: well i don’t know maybe they would have needed one anyway but

589
00:38:14,260 –> 00:38:15,260
[Unknown]: but

590
00:38:16,000 –> 00:38:20,800
[Unknown]: i i i had heard this from my wife you know so it was something she heard growing up

591
00:38:21,360 –> 00:38:25,920
[Unknown]: but she didn’t know all the details about it and so i was able to interview my

592
00:38:25,920 –> 00:38:29,520
[Unknown]: mother in law about it when i was visiting congo and

593
00:38:30,880 –> 00:38:34,800
[Unknown]: my wife is from congo she just feeling that back back story but

594
00:38:38,320 –> 00:38:42,320
[Unknown]: her my my mother in law’s names annette malaby and when

595
00:38:43,180 –> 00:38:44,180
[Unknown]: tres

596
00:38:45,040 –> 00:38:47,120
[Unknown]: her eldest daughter was about two years old

597
00:38:48,240 –> 00:38:53,600
[Unknown]: she cried out that she was bitten by a snake her mother got to her founder her not

598
00:38:53,840 –> 00:38:58,240
[Unknown]: breathing there was no medical help available in the village so she strapped the

599
00:38:58,240 –> 00:39:03,680
[Unknown]: child to her back and ran to a nearby village where family friend coco and gomo

600
00:39:03,840 –> 00:39:04,960
[Unknown]: maisen

601
00:39:06,560 –> 00:39:12,480
[Unknown]: koku prayed for tress trest started breathing again and the next day she was fine

602
00:39:12,800 –> 00:39:16,160
[Unknown]: and today she has a master’s degree she just recently retired

603
00:39:17,280 –> 00:39:23,200
[Unknown]: so i asked how long was it that she wasn’t breathing and again this is as far as

604
00:39:20,935 –> 00:39:21,935
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Hm

605
00:39:23,280 –> 00:39:26,880
[Unknown]: anybody could tell they didn’t have you know medical instruments and so on but they

606
00:39:27,520 –> 00:39:32,960
[Unknown]: you know they live a lot closer to death than we do in our society they know the

607
00:39:32,960 –> 00:39:34,640
[Unknown]: signs of death better than we do

608
00:39:36,160 –> 00:39:42,480
[Unknown]: she had to stop and think ah low from this village to that village this hill that

609
00:39:42,960 –> 00:39:44,240
[Unknown]: she said about three hours

610
00:39:45,620 –> 00:39:46,620
[Unknown]: six

611
00:39:46,400 –> 00:39:52,640
[Unknown]: minutes with no oxygen ir refer brain damage starts in now this isn’t the most

612
00:39:52,800 –> 00:39:58,240
[Unknown]: dramatic resuscitation account that i have by any by any means i mean there’s

613
00:39:58,400 –> 00:40:01,920
[Unknown]: others that are like eight hours and so on there’s others that are medically

614
00:40:01,780 –> 00:40:02,780
[Unknown]: documented

615
00:40:03,600 –> 00:40:05,920
[Unknown]: that are like over an hour and so on

616
00:40:06,700 –> 00:40:07,700
[Unknown]: but this one

617
00:40:09,120 –> 00:40:11,680
[Unknown]: really got my attention because it was my sister in law

618
00:40:13,680 –> 00:40:15,760
[Unknown]: and she has no brain damage obviously so

619
00:40:19,200 –> 00:40:23,840
[Unknown]: when i when i went into this i i did go into it as a christian you know by this

620
00:40:23,460 –> 00:40:24,460
[Unknown]: point

621
00:40:25,360 –> 00:40:29,200
[Unknown]: but when i went into the research i was like going into it because

622
00:40:30,400 –> 00:40:34,880
[Unknown]: i’m dealing you know as i’m writing commentaries i’m dealing with people saying

623
00:40:34,960 –> 00:40:39,840
[Unknown]: well these things historically aren’t reliable because look how many miracles they

624
00:40:39,920 –> 00:40:45,280
[Unknown]: recount and never have i witnessed accounts and miracles and i’m like oh yes you do

625
00:40:46,240 –> 00:40:51,360
[Unknown]: i know a whole bunch of them so you know but i said well let’s let me just start

626
00:40:51,620 –> 00:40:52,620
[Unknown]: exploring to see

627
00:40:53,220 –> 00:40:54,220
[Unknown]: what

628
00:40:53,535 –> 00:40:54,535
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: six.

629
00:40:54,000 –> 00:40:55,200
[Unknown]: what we have out there and

630
00:40:56,900 –> 00:40:57,900
[Unknown]: um

631
00:40:58,480 –> 00:41:02,800
[Unknown]: when i was interviewing people i would i would still come with my you know

632
00:41:04,960 –> 00:41:07,440
[Unknown]: the burden of proof i was requiring was pretty high

633
00:41:08,180 –> 00:41:09,180
[Unknown]: but

634
00:41:09,760 –> 00:41:15,360
[Unknown]: after a while you begin to realize you know this isn’t just a one off there are

635
00:41:15,600 –> 00:41:20,800
[Unknown]: enough of these so you’re not saying okay let me there has to be no other possible

636
00:41:21,460 –> 00:41:22,460
[Unknown]: explanation for this

637
00:41:25,120 –> 00:41:29,440
[Unknown]: i finally got to the place where actually you know if you’ve got credible witnesses

638
00:41:30,560 –> 00:41:35,600
[Unknown]: and especially independent witnesses when we did consult with coco louise not to

639
00:41:35,600 –> 00:41:38,880
[Unknown]: dut one’s mother in love i mean we did check with another witness

640
00:41:40,240 –> 00:41:41,840
[Unknown]: that confirmed through as a story

641
00:41:44,080 –> 00:41:48,960
[Unknown]: i didn’t approach the witnesses with quite the same level of skepticism after a

642
00:41:48,960 –> 00:41:51,840
[Unknown]: while because there was just too much i mean i’ve had students

643
00:41:52,880 –> 00:41:56,960
[Unknown]: share with me their own eyewitness accounts of people being raised from the dead

644
00:41:57,360 –> 00:42:02,960
[Unknown]: i’ve not witnessed that one myself i’ve witnessed like i said storm sting and

645
00:42:03,060 –> 00:42:04,060
[Unknown]: things like that but

646
00:42:05,360 –> 00:42:08,640
[Unknown]: i have accounts in there from some of my doctoral students and

647
00:42:09,300 –> 00:42:10,300
[Unknown]: um

648
00:42:10,700 –> 00:42:11,700
[Unknown]: every year

649
00:42:12,720 –> 00:42:16,240
[Unknown]: i keep you know as i keep getting new doctoral students i keep getting them

650
00:42:16,480 –> 00:42:18,320
[Unknown]: accounts uh you know

651
00:42:19,140 –> 00:42:20,140
[Unknown]: just

652
00:42:20,800 –> 00:42:23,440
[Unknown]: hume said you don’t have any credible eyewitnesses

653
00:42:25,120 –> 00:42:29,040
[Unknown]: there was a pu form survey down in two thousand six of just ten countries

654
00:42:30,320 –> 00:42:33,120
[Unknown]: and the pentecostals and charismatic in those ten countries

655
00:42:34,480 –> 00:42:38,400
[Unknown]: you figure out the numbers it’s somewhere around two hundred million of them claim

656
00:42:38,640 –> 00:42:41,920
[Unknown]: to have witnessed or experienced divine healing

657
00:42:44,055 –> 00:42:45,055
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: That’s a big number

658
00:42:44,320 –> 00:42:49,280
[Unknown]: but if you if you don’t if you want a discount pentecostals and charismatic the

659
00:42:49,360 –> 00:42:53,680
[Unknown]: control group was other christians and somewhere around thirty nine percent of

660
00:42:53,380 –> 00:42:54,380
[Unknown]: those

661
00:42:55,360 –> 00:42:57,920
[Unknown]: claim to have witnessed or experienced divine healing

662
00:42:58,960 –> 00:43:05,200
[Unknown]: and and i mean you’ve got like a third of people in the us surveyed you’ve got over

663
00:43:05,440 –> 00:43:10,000
[Unknown]: half of doctors surveyed in the us claiming that they’ve witnessed

664
00:43:11,300 –> 00:43:12,300
[Unknown]: miracles

665
00:43:13,360 –> 00:43:19,120
[Unknown]: and in context in that survey the context was you know the previous question was

666
00:43:19,280 –> 00:43:24,080
[Unknown]: about believing in miracles the way they’re reported in the bible so i mean we’re

667
00:43:25,840 –> 00:43:27,360
[Unknown]: and then when you look at also

668
00:43:29,360 –> 00:43:33,200
[Unknown]: china was not in one of the ten countries surveyed it’s really hard to get new

669
00:43:34,800 –> 00:43:37,440
[Unknown]: accurate religious statistics in china but

670
00:43:38,880 –> 00:43:42,880
[Unknown]: a report from from the china christian council from around the year two thousand

671
00:43:44,480 –> 00:43:48,000
[Unknown]: said that about half of all conversions in the previous twenty years to

672
00:43:48,080 –> 00:43:51,120
[Unknown]: christianity had been due to faith feeling experiences

673
00:43:52,180 –> 00:43:53,180
[Unknown]: and within the house

674
00:43:53,055 –> 00:43:54,055
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: one

675
00:43:53,360 –> 00:43:57,920
[Unknown]: church movement some of the stats were way higher than that now

676
00:43:59,440 –> 00:44:05,120
[Unknown]: in india and in other places uh nepal dr bal krishna sharma and that paul told me

677
00:44:05,200 –> 00:44:07,920
[Unknown]: that eighty percentage of conversions and

678
00:44:07,895 –> 00:44:08,895
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: perc.

679
00:44:08,000 –> 00:44:14,560
[Unknown]: nepal were due to healings and exorcisms so i mean we’re talking about just

680
00:44:16,000 –> 00:44:17,520
[Unknown]: we’re talking about millions of people

681
00:44:19,040 –> 00:44:22,880
[Unknown]: who weren’t starting with christian presupposition they were starting with

682
00:44:22,960 –> 00:44:28,400
[Unknown]: presupposition that often often not always but often were antithetical to those

683
00:44:28,960 –> 00:44:34,240
[Unknown]: presupposition and actually we converted through witnessing something or through

684
00:44:34,720 –> 00:44:36,560
[Unknown]: somebody close to them witnessing something

685
00:44:37,840 –> 00:44:43,200
[Unknown]: that couldn’t be explained in their traditional terms and often these conversions i

686
00:44:43,280 –> 00:44:46,640
[Unknown]: mean there were a lot of people experienced these things to testify about these

687
00:44:46,720 –> 00:44:48,640
[Unknown]: things but weren’t converted because

688
00:44:50,560 –> 00:44:56,160
[Unknown]: in some cases the social cost of abandoning centuries of tradition i mean this is

689
00:44:57,600 –> 00:45:03,120
[Unknown]: i don’t think hume would have made the argument today that you know you just don’t

690
00:45:03,120 –> 00:45:06,480
[Unknown]: have enough credible eyewitnesses you know i’m not saying he would have changed his

691
00:45:06,640 –> 00:45:10,480
[Unknown]: mind but certainly well i shouldn’t say certainly i shouldn’t speak for somebody

692
00:45:10,720 –> 00:45:14,960
[Unknown]: else i don’t think he would make the same argument today because we just have too

693
00:45:15,040 –> 00:45:16,880
[Unknown]: much data that they contradict it

694
00:45:19,515 –> 00:45:23,035
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: You could not make that argument with any sort of integrity today. No

695
00:45:23,035 –> 00:45:27,275
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: doubt you mentioned Nepal. Uh, up until Li, some of these recent

696
00:45:27,675 –> 00:45:30,955
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: moves of God and the eighty percent of people converting because of

697
00:45:30,660 –> 00:45:31,660
[Unknown]: oh

698
00:45:30,955 –> 00:45:35,675
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: healing miracles. I. That was a nation. that was, I think less than

699
00:45:35,835 –> 00:45:40,875
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: one percent Christian. It just uh, you know, it’s astounding to see

700
00:45:41,675 –> 00:45:47,915
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: major moves of God like that in places that are uh, well in the range

701
00:45:48,075 –> 00:45:51,755
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: of unreached people groups, and it’s very difficult to explain it

702
00:45:52,235 –> 00:45:57,755
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: away as a skeptical sociologist or atheist, or uh, any kind ofkeptic

703
00:45:58,155 –> 00:46:00,635
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: or whatever, So I can I ask real quick.

704
00:46:01,995 –> 00:46:06,075
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: You’re married to you, met your wife and the Congo. I know yours. You

705
00:46:06,315 –> 00:46:09,675
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: tell the story of that in your book Imp, possibsle, love, But can you

706
00:46:09,835 –> 00:46:14,395
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: kind of give us a elevator pitch a minute or two. How how did you

707
00:46:14,475 –> 00:46:16,155
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: make your wife? How did that come about?

708
00:46:15,440 –> 00:46:17,840
[Unknown]: yeah now that wind is not a scholarly book so

709
00:46:19,040 –> 00:46:25,360
[Unknown]: you yeah that one in miracles today and gift and giver are probably fairly readable

710
00:46:25,520 –> 00:46:28,160
[Unknown]: for your in the background commentary i mean you don’t

711
00:46:29,360 –> 00:46:31,120
[Unknown]: i’ll be at a high level of

712
00:46:32,640 –> 00:46:37,520
[Unknown]: academic to deal with those by ines but anyway we actually met when she was an

713
00:46:37,600 –> 00:46:42,640
[Unknown]: exchange student i was doing my phd at duke in new testament and christian origins

714
00:46:43,200 –> 00:46:48,000
[Unknown]: she was doing her phd at university of paris seven it was called back then

715
00:46:49,520 –> 00:46:54,000
[Unknown]: but she came over as an exchange student because she was doing her research on

716
00:46:54,800 –> 00:46:58,480
[Unknown]: african american women after reconstruction that was her disting area

717
00:46:59,520 –> 00:47:04,320
[Unknown]: she came over to study americans and she got one but it took a while before we got

718
00:47:04,480 –> 00:47:08,320
[Unknown]: together we liked each other but we were both extremely shock

719
00:47:09,360 –> 00:47:15,280
[Unknown]: so um i mean i’m talking with you but i’m really if you put me into a social

720
00:47:15,520 –> 00:47:20,240
[Unknown]: situation i’m really awkward i’m just shy not as bad as it was after finishing the

721
00:47:20,240 –> 00:47:22,240
[Unknown]: acts commentary but anyway

722
00:47:24,320 –> 00:47:30,480
[Unknown]: she she she and i were both part of university christian fellowship campus ministry

723
00:47:30,560 –> 00:47:31,920
[Unknown]: group there and

724
00:47:34,500 –> 00:47:35,500
[Unknown]: got to know each other

725
00:47:36,880 –> 00:47:39,360
[Unknown]: she was sharing christ with people on the campus

726
00:47:40,960 –> 00:47:45,440
[Unknown]: i was and i’d share christ with somebody they’d say oh yeah medan was singa told me

727
00:47:45,520 –> 00:47:46,720
[Unknown]: the same thing so when

728
00:47:48,000 –> 00:47:51,120
[Unknown]: she went back to france to finish her phd we kept in touch

729
00:47:52,240 –> 00:47:53,280
[Unknown]: but we were just friends

730
00:47:54,480 –> 00:47:57,360
[Unknown]: and then she went back to congo and got caught up in a civil war

731
00:47:58,800 –> 00:48:03,840
[Unknown]: she survived that one but then there was another civil war and that went

732
00:48:05,360 –> 00:48:09,920
[Unknown]: she ended up as a refugee for eighteen months and i got a letter

733
00:48:11,120 –> 00:48:14,960
[Unknown]: by the time i got the letter she was already a refugee her town had have been

734
00:48:15,040 –> 00:48:19,200
[Unknown]: burned down pretty much and i i didn’t know she was alive or dead for eighteen

735
00:48:19,260 –> 00:48:20,260
[Unknown]: months because

736
00:48:21,760 –> 00:48:24,800
[Unknown]: uh the last letter that i got from her was saying

737
00:48:26,640 –> 00:48:27,760
[Unknown]: that um

738
00:48:30,320 –> 00:48:32,400
[Unknown]: the soldiers were closing in on her town

739
00:48:34,240 –> 00:48:38,000
[Unknown]: reportedly they had orders to kill the educated people first

740
00:48:39,300 –> 00:48:40,300
[Unknown]: and

741
00:48:42,960 –> 00:48:44,960
[Unknown]: yeah but by the time that

742
00:48:46,240 –> 00:48:52,400
[Unknown]: i got the letter she had fled into the forest they’d been pushing her her disabled

743
00:48:52,400 –> 00:48:53,600
[Unknown]: father in a wheelbarrow

744
00:48:54,260 –> 00:48:55,260
[Unknown]: and

745
00:48:56,960 –> 00:48:58,000
[Unknown]: at any given time

746
00:48:59,040 –> 00:49:04,400
[Unknown]: somebody in the family was close to death from malaria or typhoid or something else

747
00:49:05,360 –> 00:49:10,480
[Unknown]: uh they just kept ahead of the the fighting as they were flame from one place to

748
00:49:10,180 –> 00:49:11,180
[Unknown]: another

749
00:49:12,180 –> 00:49:13,180
[Unknown]: she would have to

750
00:49:14,320 –> 00:49:16,320
[Unknown]: often go like five miles a day

751
00:49:17,360 –> 00:49:22,720
[Unknown]: to get through snake infested swamps and fields of army ants to just get food for

752
00:49:22,420 –> 00:49:23,420
[Unknown]: the family

753
00:49:24,780 –> 00:49:25,780
[Unknown]: so on

754
00:49:28,500 –> 00:49:29,500
[Unknown]: yeah

755
00:49:31,360 –> 00:49:33,120
[Unknown]: i’m glad we’re together now

756
00:49:36,555 –> 00:49:41,595
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: Well, I imagine going through that and her going through that has Uh

757
00:49:43,595 –> 00:49:47,115
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: been one of the wonderful contributing factors that has made you

758
00:49:47,355 –> 00:49:51,995
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: something far beyond a dusty intellectual academic. the kind of

759
00:49:52,315 –> 00:49:56,075
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: stereotype we might have ofminary professors

760
00:49:57,515 –> 00:50:01,755
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: know I know you. Your your visitation to Africa has been far more

761
00:50:01,835 –> 00:50:05,595
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: extensive than mine. Has ive spent a few weeks in Africa, not Congo,

762
00:50:05,835 –> 00:50:10,875
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: but Tanzania, and uh, Kenya, and one thing that uh beyond the

763
00:50:11,915 –> 00:50:14,795
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: hospitality of the people, and they were wonderful there. There was

764
00:50:14,955 –> 00:50:19,515
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: a. There was a time when I was in Kenya, where I was uh, preaching in

765
00:50:19,515 –> 00:50:24,635
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: a village and uh, I was literally the only mazo. I was the only white

766
00:50:24,855 –> 00:50:25,855
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: guy for like uh,

767
00:50:26,955 –> 00:50:31,515
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: several villages over, and never felt threatened or or or anything,

768
00:50:31,915 –> 00:50:36,315
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: but treated just just wonderfully. Um. I, I love the people there and

769
00:50:36,395 –> 00:50:40,635
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: the fruit. The fruit was astounding. Our American fruit barely has

770
00:50:40,875 –> 00:50:44,475
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: any taste compared to African fruit. Uh, it. that just kind of blew

771
00:50:44,635 –> 00:50:48,155
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: me away the first bite I took of. Uh, pretty much every fruit I had

772
00:50:47,600 –> 00:50:51,280
[Unknown]: you mean it literally i was thinking you were talking metaphorically but yeah both

773
00:50:47,975 –> 00:50:48,975
[chase_thompson_3dqpod]: over there.

774
00:50:51,020 –> 00:50:52,020
[Unknown]: ways

See the next episode for more!